1 CERTIFIED COPY 2 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 3 FOR THE COUNTY OF RIVERSIDE 4 5 DIAMOND FARMING COMPANY, a ) California corporation, ) 6 ) Plaintiff, ) 7 ) vs. ) No. RIC 344436 8 ) Consolidated CITY OF LANCASTER, et al., ) With Case Nos. 9 ) 344668 and Defendants. ) 353840 10 ______________________________________) WM. BOLTHOUSE FARMS, INC., a ) 11 Michigan corporation, ) ) 12 Plaintiff, ) ) 13 vs. ) ) 14 CITY OF LANCASTER, et al., ) ) 15 Defendants. ) ______________________________________) 16 17 DEPOSITION OF JOSEPH C. SCALMANINI, PE, a witness 18 herein, taken by Plaintiff DIAMOND FARMING 19 COMPANY, at 3750 University Avenue, Riverside, 20 California, at 10:10 a.m., on Monday, March 11, 21 2002, before Gail C. Cain, CSR 6556. 22 23 Hutchings Number 02-04112-RI 24 25 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: 2 3 For Plaintiff DIAMOND FARMING COMPANY: 4 LEBEAU THELEN, LLP 5 BY BOB H. JOYCE 6 5001 East Commercenter Drive, Suite 300 7 Bakersfield, California 93889-2092 8 9 For Plaintiff WM. BOLTHOUSE FARMS: 10 CLIFFORD & BROWN 11 BY RICHARD G. ZIMMER 12 1430 Truxtun Avenue, Suite 900 13 Bakersfield, California 93301-5230 14 15 For Defendant ROSAMOND COMMUNITY SERVICES DISTRICT: 16 BEST, BEST & KRIEGER 17 BY JEFFREY V. DUNN 18 3750 University Avenue, Fourth Floor 19 Riverside, California 92502 20 21 For Defendant PALMDALE/QUARTZ HILL: 22 LAGERLOF, SENECAL, BRADLEY, GOSNEY & KRUSE, LLP 23 BY H. JESS SENECAL 24 301 North Lake Avenue, 10th Floor 25 Pasadena, California 91101-4108 2 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: 2 3 For Defendant L.A. COUNTY WATERWORKS DISTRICTS NOS. 37 4 AND 40: 5 REDWINE AND SHERRILL 6 BY STEVEN B. ABBOTT 7 1950 Market Street 8 Riverside, California 92501 9 10 For Defendant CITY OF LANCASTER: 11 STRADLING YOCCA CARLSON & RAUTH 12 BY GABRIEL FLORES 13 660 Newport Center Drive, Suite 1600 14 Newport Beach, California 92660 15 16 For Defendant ANTELOPE VALLEY WATER COMPANY: 17 JOHN TOOTLE 18 1720 First Street 19 San Jose, California 95112 20 21 Also Present: 22 E. STEWART JOHNSTON 23 N. THOMAS SHEAHAN 24 25 3 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 I N D E X 2 WITNESS: JOSEPH C. SCALMANINI, PE 3 EXAMINATION BY: PAGE 4 MR. JOYCE 5 5 6 7 E X H I B I T S 8 PLAINTIFF DESCRIPTION IDENTIFIED MARKED 9 A Declaration and exhibits 9 -- (To be provided by witness) 10 B Report 20 20 11 C Concepts of Groundwater 25 63 12 Management 13 D Letter, 10-30-01 50 63 to Antonucci 14 from Scalmanini 15 16 17 Questions the witness refuses to answer are indicated in 18 the transcript with a pound sign (#) and are located on 19 the following page and line numbers: 11-21, 35-4, 20 56-14, 57-5 21 22 23 24 25 4 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 JOSEPH C. SCALMANINI, PE, 2 a witness herein, having been sworn, testifies as 3 follows: 4 5 -EXAMINATION- 6 7 BY MR. JOYCE: 8 Q. If you could, please state your full name, 9 spelling your last name for the benefit of the court 10 reporter. 11 A. She has a card. But it's Joseph C. Scalmanini, 12 S-C-A-L-M-A-N-I-N-I. 13 Q. Mr. Scalmanini, you've given deposition 14 testimony, I presume, on a number of previous occasions. 15 Do you know approximately how many? 16 A. I don't keep track, but I'll say 20 to 30. 17 Q. You've also testified in court proceedings, 18 have you not? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Two in the most recent five or six years? 21 A. Say again. 22 Q. Two occasions in the most recent five or six 23 years? 24 A. Two occasions? 25 Q. Yes. 5 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 A. More than two but at least two, yeah. 2 Q. In the last five years? 3 A. I think so. 4 Q. Can you just kind of give me an indication of 5 what the nature of those cases were in each instance and 6 what you were asked to do as an expert witness. 7 A. I'll try to go backwards chronologically. 8 The most recent was I testified in court on the 9 Santa Maria litigation sometime last year on the same 10 subject we're here to talk about, the boundaries of the 11 basin. 12 Q. That's Santa Maria? 13 A. That's what? 14 Q. It was the Santa Maria? 15 A. Santa Maria. 16 Q. In that case, did you submit any written 17 reports in connection with or in support of any opinions 18 you expressed? 19 A. I kind of lose track of what's happened to all 20 the paper. But what I recall is that I prepared a 21 declaration on the subject of basin boundaries, 22 including a map that delineated and text that describe 23 those. Whether that got submitted or not, I don't 24 remember. 25 Q. You prepared it and made it available to the 6 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 attorneys who had retained you. Whether or not they 2 used it, you do not know? 3 A. Well, I know that we used some of the mapping 4 because they became exhibits at the time of testimony. 5 I don't remember about the -- how it got submitted 6 beyond that. 7 Q. Is that declaration still available to you? 8 In other words, do you have a copy of it in your 9 documents that you maintain in your business office? 10 A. I'll say probably. I don't remember for sure. 11 Q. I assume that you could make it available to 12 the court reporter if it exists and is available to you 13 so as to be appended to this deposition if I asked you 14 to secure a copy of it from you? 15 A. I think the right answer is if it got submitted 16 to the court. Otherwise probably not. 17 Q. Well, I don't want you to be a lawyer. I want 18 you to be an expert witness. I don't care whether you 19 think I have a right to it or not. 20 A. Okay. 21 Q. My question is, if you have it in your office, 22 I'm asking that you make it available to the court 23 reporter so that she can attach it to this deposition as 24 Exhibit 1. 25 MR. DUNN: Well, objection on the grounds of 7 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 privilege. It may not necessarily be privilege in this 2 case, but to the extent that he's done work -- other 3 expert consulting or professional services work for 4 other law firms in other cases, to that extent it may be 5 privileged. And on that ground, I'll assert the 6 privilege on behalf of Mr. Scalmanini. 7 MR. JOYCE: He has no privilege, as you know, 8 Counsel. 9 MR. DUNN: No. What I'm saying is, he's been -- 10 MR. JOYCE: Who is the client on whose behalf you 11 are purporting to assert the privilege? 12 MR. DUNN: Let me just put it in on the record. 13 To the extent that Mr. Scalmanini has been retained 14 by other parties outside this litigation, to the extent 15 that he has done reports or work that has not yet been 16 made public or available through the court process but 17 is otherwise privileged because of the work he's done in 18 other cases, then I'll assert the privilege on behalf of 19 Mr. Scalmanini. 20 MR. JOYCE: 21 Q. Mr. Scalmanini, in the Santa Maria litigation, 22 were you designated as an expert, to your knowledge? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. In connection with that litigation, were you 25 asked by the attorneys who had designated you to prepare 8 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 a declaration that addressed the issue and concepts of 2 basin boundaries? 3 A. I think the answer is yes. 4 Q. Who were the attorneys who retained you in that 5 action? 6 A. Law firm is Downey, Brand, Seymour & Rohwer. 7 Q. Located where? 8 A. Sacramento. 9 Q. Downey, Brand -- 10 A. Downey, D-O-W-N-E-Y, Brand, B-R-A-N-D, Seymour, 11 S-E-Y-M-O-U-R, and Rohwer, R-O-H-W-E-R. 12 Q. Located in Sacramento? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Did you maintain a file on that litigation? 15 A. Several files associated with that litigation, 16 yes. 17 Q. I'm going to ask Madam Court Reporter to 18 provide you with her card at this point in the 19 deposition. 20 Could you do that, ma'am. 21 ^ And I would ask that at the conclusion of the 22 deposition, when you return to your office, if you could 23 make an effort to isolate and locate that declaration 24 and any exhibits appended to that declaration and make a 25 true and correct copy of it and provide it to the court 9 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 reporter to be identified and marked in this deposition 2 here today as Exhibit A. 3 Okay, sir? 4 A. I will, I guess, inquire as to whether I can do 5 that or not. If I can, I will do it. 6 Q. If, in fact, sir, anyone asserts to you that 7 you are not to produce that document, would you direct 8 that person, whoever they may be, to contact me. 9 And you can make a note that my telephone number is 10 area code 661- -- 11 MR. DUNN: I'm going to instruct Mr. Scalmanini -- 12 You can ask him to do this, but this is a deposition 13 here this morning on his expert opinion in this case. 14 If you want him to do work for you or do other 15 things, that's clearly improper here. You can contact 16 Mr. Scalmanini at a later time. But to use this 17 deposition to somehow gather additional discovery or to 18 delve into other cases is clearly improper. 19 To the extent that you're using this deposition and 20 particularly this point in the deposition to have 21 Mr. Scalmanini do further work, I object to that. 22 MR. JOYCE: I'm not asking him to do anything other 23 than retrieve from his files. 24 MR. DUNN: Counselor, that document you're asking 25 for him to retrieve, based upon your question, is a 10 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 public document. It's filed with the court. It is just 2 as available to you as it is to Mr. Scalmanini. 3 MR. JOYCE: If you wish to instruct him, do so, 4 Counsel. Otherwise, I'm going to ask him to take my 5 phone number down in case someone -- 6 MR. DUNN: If you're going to use this deposition 7 to engage in this kind of tactic, I'll end the 8 deposition. 9 MR. JOYCE: It's your call. Do what you want to 10 do. You end the deposition, I'll make a motion to 11 exclude testimony. Your choice. Do what you want. 12 MR. DUNN: No, you will not. You can make the 13 motion, but we will conclude the deposition today if you 14 persist in this kind of behavior. 15 MR. JOYCE: I don't characterize what I'm doing as 16 behavior. I'm asking questions. 17 MR. DUNN: You're not asking questions about his 18 opinion or the work that he's done to gather the 19 opinion. 20 MR. JOYCE: 21 Q. # Mr. Scalmanini, my phone number is area code 22 (661)325-8962. If anyone directs you to not make 23 available that declaration and exhibits, to the extent 24 they are available to you in your file, just please 25 direct them to contact me. 11 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 MR. DUNN: I instruct you not to answer that 2 comment. 3 THE WITNESS: I do need to ask one question. 4 MR. DUNN: No. It's okay. You can ask me. 5 THE WITNESS: I want to know who he is. I wouldn't 6 know who to ask for. 7 MR. JOYCE: Bob Joyce. That's B-O-B J-O-Y-C-E. 8 You said you instructed him not to answer. I don't 9 know that my last directive contemplated an answer. 10 MR. DUNN: That's the whole problem. You don't ask 11 questions. You kind of give directions to the expert. 12 MR. JOYCE: If you're instructing him to not do 13 what I asked to do, say that on the record, please. 14 MR. DUNN: I don't have to do that. 15 MR. JOYCE: Well, are you instructing him to not do 16 what I asked him to do? 17 MR. DUNN: I'm not answering the questions here 18 today. 19 MR. JOYCE: Do I understand that you are a person 20 who is going to call me and say he isn't going to 21 produce that document? 22 MR. DUNN: You need to ask questions of 23 Mr. Scalmanini. 24 MR. JOYCE: 25 Q. Mr. Scalmanini, you understand what I'm looking 12 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 for. I will trust that you will, unless told otherwise, 2 comply. That's my statement. That's not even a 3 question. 4 What's your business address for the purposes of 5 serving a subpena? 6 A. Say again. 7 Q. Business address where I can serve a subpena. 8 A. 500 First Street, Woodland, California. 9 Q. Other than the Santa Maria litigation, what's 10 the next case where you've testified in court as an 11 expert witness? 12 A. They kind of run together. I testified in 13 court in Santa Cruz County on matters related to 14 ultimately so-called storage and transmission fees 15 imposed by the local water district. 16 There was some contest over those but basically the 17 technical basis for them establishing these, meaning 18 storage and transmission fees. 19 Q. Approximately when was that? 20 A. I don't remember. 21 Q. In the last few years? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Who are the litigants in that case? 24 A. Who are the litigants? 25 Q. Yes. 13 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 A. Well, the defendant, I guess, was the Soquel 2 Creek Water District. 3 Q. Do you know if they're into plaintiffs' work? 4 A. No. 5 I've testified in matters related to well failures 6 in Contra Costa County and in Shasta County. I don't 7 remember exactly. 8 Q. In both of those cases -- 9 A. Those were two separate cases. 10 Q. In both of those cases, the subject matter was 11 well failures? 12 A. That's what I said, yes. 13 Q. Was your testimony intended to be proffered as 14 an expert and to provide an explanation as to why the 15 wells failed? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Were there any issues in either of those two 18 cases that involved boundaries or the establishment of 19 any boundaries? 20 A. No. 21 Q. I presume in the Santa Cruz County case, the 22 boundaries was not an issue in that litigation. 23 A. That is correct. 24 Q. Others? 25 A. I've testified on matters related to -- I'll 14 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 call it just water system facilities and adequacy of 2 supply, water quality issues, et cetera, related to the 3 former Donner Lake Water Company near Donner Lake in 4 the -- at the crest of the Sierra. 5 Q. Did that testimony involve any basin boundaries 6 or boundary issues? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Next? 9 A. I'm drawing a blank. There has been others, 10 but I can't think of them. 11 Q. Do you recall having provided testimony as an 12 expert witness in a condemnation action? 13 A. Not instantaneously, no. 14 Q. Do you recall having provided expert witness 15 testimony in an action involving an irrigation system 16 failure? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Do you recall when that was? 19 A. Rough guess, five-ish years ago. 20 Q. In the Santa Maria litigation, did you 21 provide -- 22 A. Hold on. Couple of those, similar vintage. So 23 I would say both of those. 24 One was up in Red Bluff or Redding. Physical 25 setting was near Red Bluff. The other was in Solano 15 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 County. 2 Q. Neither of those involved any basin boundaries 3 or boundary issues, did it? 4 A. No. 5 Q. With respect to the Santa Maria litigation, did 6 you provide a deposition in that litigation? 7 A. No, I don't think so. No. 8 Q. Is it fair to say, then, that the only trial 9 where you've appeared and provided expert witness 10 testimony that involved boundaries or basin boundary 11 issues would have been the Santa Maria litigation? 12 A. Yes, I think so. 13 Q. Sir, I was provided a copy of your curriculum 14 vitae in connection with the designation of you as an 15 expert in this litigation. 16 Has it changed at all since you provided it to 17 counsel for their use and transmission to me? 18 A. Possibly an issue of a presentation I made as 19 part of the Ground Water Trust conference last fall. 20 But that would be the only thing, other than adding a 21 year to the list of experience. 22 Q. So is it your best recollection that the 23 curriculum vitae that was provided to your counsel, or 24 provided to counsel in this matter, was approximately a 25 year old when provided to him? 16 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 A. It was approximately a year old then or now? 2 Q. Approximately a year old -- Strike that. 3 It is, as we sit here today, outdated by about a 4 year? 5 A. I, probably, guess six or eight months rather 6 than a year, but -- 7 Q. How often do you update it? 8 A. Probably when I think about it. 9 Q. No particular pattern or time frame? 10 A. No, sir. 11 Q. What was the presentation that you were 12 referring to that may not be in your current -- strike 13 that -- that may not be in the curriculum vitae, as 14 provided to me, that you were thinking of a moment ago? 15 A. I participated in a panel discussion on the 16 Santa Maria litigation that we talked about earlier as 17 part of a one-day -- I'll call it conference for lack of 18 a better term -- put on by the American Ground Water 19 Trust in, I think it was, Anaheim last fall, October 20 plus or minus. 21 Q. With respect to that panel discussion, was the 22 issue of basin boundaries or subbasin boundaries an 23 issue in the discussions? 24 A. I don't know if I would use the word "issue" to 25 describe it, but it was part of the discussion. 17 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 Q. Was it a topic that was a point of discussion? 2 A. Not really. 3 I illustrated the basin -- I mean the overall 4 setting of this discussion was to describe the pluses 5 and minuses of entering into a litigation. 6 My role, at least the way I took it, was to be the 7 first of, I think, four speakers. All of the others 8 were lawyers. 9 And I kind of set the physical stage, if you can 10 call it that, but I explained to the audience where this 11 was and how ground water occurred in this basin. 12 I had one graphic that showed an outline of the 13 basin and then discussed how much water was used and the 14 general state of the basin. 15 Q. Did you circulate or disseminate at that panel 16 discussion any written literature? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Did you prepare for that panel discussion any 19 literature for your own use? 20 A. What do you mean by "literature"? 21 Q. Outline, a writing, a presentation, paper, 22 anything along those lines? 23 A. There was no paper, typewriting or anything 24 like that. I prepared some visual aids to illustrate a 25 couple of things I just mentioned. 18 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 Q. I presume that postdated in time when you 2 prepared the declaration that was utilized in this 3 Santa Maria litigation itself? 4 A. I don't remember. I don't think so. I think 5 it predated it, but I really don't remember. 6 Q. Were you shown the notice of taking deposition 7 today? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Did you bring the documentation with you that 10 was requested? 11 A. I think I brought everything, yeah. 12 Q. What do you have here with you today that you 13 understand would be responsive? 14 A. I have a collection of reference materials 15 which I reviewed as part of the effort to prepare that 16 report or paper or technical memo. 17 I have the file that I maintain on the job. 18 Q. Could you just identify for the benefit of the 19 record the reference material that you referred to to 20 assist you or to rely upon by you in preparing the 21 paper. 22 You can just read off the labels and titles, 23 however you choose. 24 A. I think they're listed in the list of 25 references. Well, there were some others that are not. 19 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 You want me to read every last one of these? 2 Q. Let me ask this. You can direct that to me, 3 what you just indicated, that most all of them are 4 listed but some are not? 5 A. That's correct. 6 Q. ^ Why don't we do this. Why don't we mark as 7 Exhibit B the report itself, and then we'll take it from 8 there. 9 A. Okay. 10 Q. Do you have an extra copy of that available to 11 you? 12 A. Not really. But if I absolutely have to, I 13 could make us an extra copy. 14 Q. Why don't you provide that to the court 15 reporter, and she'll mark that as Exhibit B. 16 (Whereupon the document referred to is marked by 17 the reporter as Plaintiff Exhibit B for identification.) 18 MR. JOYCE: 19 Q. If I understand it correctly, there is a table 20 of references included at the end of that paper; 21 correct? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. You brought all of the references that are 24 listed in that table; correct? 25 A. I think so. 20 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 Q. You indicated there were some references that 2 are not listed. 3 Can you tell me or identify for me which ones you 4 are referring to. 5 A. That will take me a while, but I can do it. 6 Basically, I pulled the entire library section on 7 the -- organized geographically -- of materials that we 8 had on this basin and brought it with me. So there is 9 probably some things in here that we didn't specifically 10 refer to or use in this document, but I brought them 11 anyway. 12 Q. Let's go ahead and identify which ones those 13 would be. 14 I notice that you just set down -- Is that the 15 Carlson report that you just put on the floor? 16 A. Yes. Those are on the list. 17 Q. I appreciate that. 18 MR. ZIMMER: He's now going to identify what is not 19 contained in the reference section of Exhibit B? 20 MR. JOYCE: That's correct. 21 THE WITNESS: One is by Londquist, 22 L-O-N-D-Q-U-I-S-T, Rewis, R-E-W-I-S, Galloway 23 G-A-L-L-O-W-A-Y, and McCaffay, M-C-C-A-F-F-A-Y. 24 MR. ZIMMER: If the witness -- 25 If you could, keep your voice up. We're having 21 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 difficulty down here. 2 MR. JOYCE: The -- 3 THE WITNESS: "Hydrogeology and Land Subsidence, 4 Edwards Air Force Base, Antelope Valley, California, 5 January 1989-December 1991." 6 MR. JOYCE: 7 Q. May I see that for just one moment, please. 8 A. (Indicating.) 9 Another is by Ikehara, I-K-E-H-A-R-A, and Phillips, 10 P-H-I-L-L-I-P-S, entitled "Determination of Land 11 Subsidence Related to Ground-Water-Level" -- that's 12 three words, all hyphenated -- "Declines Using Global 13 Positioning System and Leveling Surveys in Antelope 14 Valley, Los Angeles and Kern Counties, California, 15 1992." 16 Q. If I could see that, sir. Anything that was 17 not included, just set out here so I can take a look at 18 it real quick. 19 A. (Indicating.) 20 MR. ZIMMER: Would it be possible to -- rather than 21 having him read the entire title, if we could copy the 22 title page. Otherwise, my hand won't hold up to his 23 title. That way, it will be completely identified. 24 MR. DUNN: Sure. 25 Mr. Joyce, is that fine with you? 22 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 MR. JOYCE: Yeah. 2 I was going to ask the court reporter, at a 3 convenient break, to get a copy of just the face sheets 4 of each of these. 5 Q. Is the Steven P. Phillips identified in the 6 Ikehara report the same Phillips identified in the 7 Carlson report, if you know? 8 A. I don't know them personally, no, sir. 9 Q. Do you know whether or not it is the same 10 person, as a matter of industry knowledge? 11 A. No. 12 How do you want me to identify this? Just -- 13 Q. Just give me the author and the date. 14 A. Rewis. 15 Q. Rough title? 16 A. 1993 -- 17 Q. What's the title? Just read it. 18 A. "Drilling, Construction, and Subsurface Data 19 for Piezometers," P-I-E-Z-O-M-E-T-E-R, "on Edwards Air 20 Force Base, Antelope Valley, California, 1991-92." 21 Freeman, "Time-Series Ground-Water-Level" -- three 22 words -- "and Aquifer-System Compaction Data, Edwards 23 Air Force Base, Antelope Valley, California, January 24 1991 through September 1993." 25 Q. Right here. Thank you. 23 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 A. Prince, Galloway and Leake, L-E-A-K-E, all 2 editors. 3 "U.S. Geological Survey Subsidence Interest Group 4 Conference, Edwards Air Force Base, Antelope Valley, 5 California, November 18-19, 1992: Abstracts and 6 Summary." Okay. 7 Q. I notice that in your paper you referred to a 8 Richter, R-I-C-H-T-E-R, if I'm not mistaken. 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Is the source material, from which you 11 referred, here today? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Where is that located? 14 A. It's in the file. 15 Q. Is there any reason why Richter was not listed 16 in the table of references in the back of the paper? 17 A. No. 18 I think that's cited through Schneider, which is -- 19 I don't know -- referenced. So that's why. 20 Q. Is Schneider here today with you? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Is Schneider listed in the table of references? 23 I believe it is. I'm not sure. 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Is there a reason you didn't bring Schneider 24 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 with you today? 2 A. Probably because it wasn't in the Antelope 3 Valley file in the library. 4 Q. What is Schneider? What kind of a source -- 5 resource material is it? 6 A. It's a one of six so-called staff papers 7 prepared by the Governor's Commission to -- I forget the 8 verb -- reconsider or reevaluate, or words to that 9 effect, California Water Rights Law prepared, I think, 10 in 1979. 11 And it's specifically the paper on ground water. 12 Excuse me. 1977. 13 Q. That paper, approximately how long is it? How 14 many pages are we talking about? 15 A. 50, plus or minus. On the order of this thick 16 (indicating). 17 Q. Is that readily available to you in your 18 office? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. ^ I would ask, if you could -- when you have a 21 chance to return to the office, if you could have that 22 photocopied and provide a copy of it to the court 23 reporter to be marked and identified as Exhibit C to 24 this deposition. 25 A. The document or the part of it that I referred 25 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 to in this work? 2 Q. If I understood, it's one of six papers, and it 3 happens to be the paper that dealt with ground water in 4 the overall evaluation that you referred to that was 5 done in '76 as to ground-water rights or -- excuse me -- 6 water rights? 7 A. '77. 8 Q. '77. I'm sorry. 9 In the interest of caution, I just ask you 10 duplicate the entire paper from which you extracted your 11 information. Okay? 12 A. The portion from which I extracted information? 13 Q. Not that portion which is the information you 14 looked through and relied upon but the entire paper 15 within which that information is contained. 16 MR. DUNN: No. I will tell you, just extract the 17 portion that you used in this case. There is no need to 18 start using or supplying other materials that weren't 19 considered. 20 MR. JOYCE: You're either going to let him do it, 21 or I'm going to serve a subpoena. 22 MR. DUNN: If you feel you need to serve a subpena, 23 you can. But you'll have to explain to the Court why it 24 is you want him to produce material that on the record 25 this morning, clearly wasn't part of his opinion, nor 26 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 did he use it in his opinion for his work in this case. 2 But if you want to explain that to the Court, I'll 3 stand up next to you, and we can have that -- 4 MR. ZIMMER: Just for point of clarification, 5 Mr. Scalmanini, I assume you're saying that Mr. Dunn is 6 representing you here today; is that correct? 7 THE WITNESS: That's my understanding, yes. 8 MR. JOYCE: If it's your position, Counsel, that I 9 am not entitled to the entire source material from which 10 portions -- or to which portions of which were relied 11 and reviewed, then you can defend that position in front 12 of the judge. 13 He either produces it to us, or I'm going to 14 subpena it. 15 If you're going to instruct him to not provide it 16 to the court reporter as Exhibit C, give him that 17 instruction now so I know what I'm going to do. 18 MR. DUNN: I don't have to give him any instruction 19 now. 20 MR. JOYCE: Then I'm going to serve the subpena and 21 expect that he'll respond to the subpena. 22 If you wish to move to quash, that's in your hands, 23 Counselor. 24 MR. ZIMMER: Rather than having go through all 25 these gyrations, is there something you're going to 27 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 allow him to produce or not? 2 MR. DUNN: There is no issue with him producing the 3 portion of the report that's part of his opinion in this 4 case, but he's not going to produce any document that's 5 not part of his opinion in this case. 6 MR. JOYCE: Counsel, he already has. I got one, 7 two, three, four, five documents. 8 MR. DUNN: No. You're saying -- You're 9 mischaracterizing his testimony. 10 His testimony was these are documents that are in 11 his library as part of this case file but not referenced 12 in his report. That's the difference. 13 MR. JOYCE: Counsel, he's expensive. Time is 14 short. I'm going to serve the subpena. 15 MR. DUNN: We've been here since 10:00 o'clock. 16 We're still waiting for you to get into his opinion 17 testimony. 18 MR. JOYCE: If you wish to direct me as to how to 19 take this deposition, have at it. I'm done. 20 If you have an objection, make an objection. 21 Otherwise sit back, bide your time and be quiet. Thank 22 you. 23 Q. Mr. Scalmanini, rather than having you go 24 through the process, I will duly serve you a subpena. 25 You can consult with your counsel at that time as to how 28 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 you wish to respond. 2 Mr. Scalmanini, did you bring with you today any of 3 the -- 4 A. One thing, why don't you pronounce my name 5 correctly. 6 Q. Why don't you -- 7 A. Hard to do. 8 Q. -- try it one more time. 9 A. Scalmanini. 10 Q. Scalmanini. I'm sorry. 11 Did you bring with you today any of the 12 publications or presentations referred to in your 13 curriculum vitae? 14 A. No. 15 Q. More importantly, did you bring that 16 presentation or publication that's titled "What the 17 Heck's a Sub-Basin"? 18 A. I just answered your question. No. 19 Q. Is that, in fact, a paper? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Is it an outline of a presentation made? 22 A. I don't -- It might have been at one time. 23 Q. Do you know if there is any writing maintained 24 by you in your office that addresses or contains any 25 substantive data or information that was relied or 29 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 utilized by you to make that presentation? 2 A. You mean by "substantive data" or -- what was 3 the other word? 4 Q. Writings, generally. 5 A. What do you mean by that? 6 Q. I mean something that is two-dimensional, that 7 has letters on it. 8 A. That's maintained by me? 9 Q. Yes. 10 A. I don't know. 11 Q. Do I understand that was an oral presentation? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Do I understand that you gave that presentation 14 without the aid or benefit of notes? 15 A. I doubt that I did. The question whether I 16 saved them when I was finished, I don't remember whether 17 I did or not. 18 Q. As you sit here today, you do not know whether 19 or not you have any notes that would reflect the 20 substance of what you communicated during that oral 21 presentation? 22 A. That's correct. 23 Q. If you do, I assume those are maintained in 24 your office, the business address you provided earlier? 25 A. That's where they would be if they exist, yes. 30 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 Q. Do you recall offhand what treatises or 2 materials you referred or referenced in order to prepare 3 yourself to give that oral presentation? 4 A. Not completely enough to list it for you here 5 today, no. 6 Q. Are there any particular ones that you recall, 7 as you sit here today, that address the concept of a 8 subbasin? 9 A. Some of the same materials I used in preparing 10 this report. 11 Q. Anything that's not here today, that you used 12 in preparing this report, that you can recall off the 13 top of your head? 14 A. What's the date on that? 15 Q. If I'm not mistaken, that was done in November 16 of 2000. 17 A. There is some possibility that I discussed a 18 little bit about the Santa Maria basin that day, as it 19 was evolving at that time. 20 And if I did -- I don't remember -- then I probably 21 would have relied on work to date in Santa Maria, which 22 would encompass about five years of time at that point 23 in time. 24 And that would include a review of reports and 25 documents prepared by others over nominally the 31 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 preceding 50 years that would be analogous to the kinds 2 of reports that I used in the Antelope Valley. 3 Q. Are you aware, as you sit here today, of any 4 recognized treatises that are relied upon by persons 5 doing the kind of work that you do that, by content, 6 address the concept of what a subbasin is? 7 MR. DUNN: Objection. Vague as to the term 8 "recognized." 9 THE WITNESS: Say again. 10 MR. JOYCE: Why don't you read it back to him, 11 please. 12 (The record is read by the reporter.) 13 MR. DUNN: Same objection. 14 THE WITNESS: Well, I guess you could get into some 15 quibble about what a, quote, "treatise," unquote, is. 16 Basically, I'm not aware of anything that's commonly 17 available in the way of a treatise on what a subbasin 18 is. 19 MR. JOYCE: 20 Q. Are you aware of any writings that are 21 generally available that are relied upon or looked to by 22 persons that do the kind of work that you do that, by 23 content, address the concept of a subbasin? 24 A. You better tell me what you mean by commonly 25 "available." 32 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 Q. It can be ordered. It can be acquired through 2 a library. It can be acquired from the Congressional 3 Library, from any public repository. 4 MR. DUNN: Objection. Lacks foundation. 5 Do you know? 6 THE WITNESS: I can't think of anything that you 7 find that way, no. 8 MR. JOYCE: 9 Q. Is there a way that a person can find 10 authoritative material that, by content, addresses what 11 the concept of a subbasin is? 12 A. I think that depends on who the person is very 13 much. 14 A person like me, yes. 15 Q. Well, then, when a person like you -- what 16 would you have in mind that you could access that by 17 content, discusses the concept of a subbasin? 18 A. Well, the best written material on that general 19 subject that I've seen is the Richter reference that you 20 asked me about earlier, which is here (indicating). 21 Interestingly, to answer your question, it deals 22 much more with basins than it does with subbasins. So 23 in the strictest sense, it mentions subbasins in 24 passing, but it really deals with basins. 25 Q. Is there anything other than Richter that you 33 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 can access which, by its content, is recognized to be 2 authoritative and at the same time discusses the concept 3 of a subbasin? 4 MR. DUNN: Objection. Compound. Objection. Vague 5 as to "recognized." 6 THE WITNESS: As part of looking into this subject 7 here, as well as at Santa Maria prior to this, my review 8 of the literature, including textbooks, et cetera, is 9 that it is generally devoid of being what might be 10 called a treatise on the subject of what a basin is and 11 what a subbasin is. 12 They are mentioned in text, but as far as a 13 treatise on what they are or how you define them, I 14 didn't find really anything. 15 MR. JOYCE: 16 Q. Can you, offhand, recall either the author or 17 the titles of any of the textbooks that you're referring 18 to? 19 A. The only one that I referred to, because it has 20 a little bit of a discussion, is Todd, T-O-D-D, book 21 on -- or entitled "Ground Water Hydrology." 22 Q. Do you know what the year publication is? 23 MR. SENECAL: It's on the list. 24 MR. JOYCE: Thank you. 25 THE WITNESS: It actually has two publications, the 34 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 first edition and the second edition, the second one is 2 the one that's cited on the list. 3 MR. JOYCE: 4 Q. # Approximately how thick is Todd? How many 5 pages, if you know? 6 MR. DUNN: Objection. I'm going to instruct you 7 not to answer that question. 8 MR. JOYCE: Cite that question, please. 9 Q. Is there any reason why you didn't bring Todd 10 with you today? 11 A. I brought a copy of the only page that I 12 referred to in Todd. I didn't bring the whole book. 13 Q. Of the entire book, do I understand that you 14 relied upon that text only, to the extent of one page? 15 A. That's correct. 16 Q. Where is that one page? 17 A. It's in my file. 18 Q. If I could see that, please. 19 A. (Indicating.) 20 Q. In pencil up on the top right-hand corner there 21 is an O1-6-886C. 22 What does that reference? 23 A. O86C. 24 And that reference is our file number. 25 Q. So your internal file number is referenced 35 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 01-6-086C? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. With respect to the publication or the 4 presentation -- Strike that. 5 Let's do this: I'm going to go through some of 6 these. You list both publications and presentations 7 under a singular category in your curriculum vitae. 8 Can you look at your curriculum vitae and tell me 9 which of them are presentations as opposed to 10 publications. 11 A. The first entitled "Water Wells and Pumps: 12 Their Design, Construction, Operation, and Maintenance" 13 is the University of California publication. 14 Probably save a lot of time. You can read this and 15 figure it out for yourself. Where they're 16 presentations, it says "presented at." And where it 17 doesn't say "presented at," it's a publication. 18 Do you want me to read them? 19 Q. Simply read which ones are publications and, by 20 omission, I'll know which ones are not. 21 A. The document by Helweg, H-E-L-W-E-G, Scott and 22 me, entitled "Improving Well and Pump Efficiency," is a 23 publication. 24 The document by me and Scott entitled "Design and 25 Operational Criteria for Artificial Groundwater Recharge 36 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 Facilities" is a paper. 2 The rest are presentations. 3 Q. Were any of the publications refereed? 4 A. By like a review committee for a journal or 5 something like that? 6 Q. Yes, exactly. 7 A. No. 8 Q. Have you ever written a refereed paper for a 9 trade journal or otherwise? 10 A. A long time ago. I wrote one on "Artificial 11 Ground Water Recharge in the Urban Environment in the 12 Santa Clara Valley." That was included in a referee 13 journal of the American Society of Civil Engineers. 14 I don't remember doing anything since then. 15 Q. Do you recall approximately what year that 16 would have been? 17 A. Late 1970s. 18 Q. The journal that it was published in, again, 19 was -- I'm sorry. 20 A. Well, that was probably either the Irrigation 21 and -- Journal of the Irrigation and Drainage Division 22 or maybe Water Resources -- I forget what it's called -- 23 Planning and Management Division. 24 I don't remember all -- the ASCE, which is American 25 Society of Civil Engineers, individual journals. But it 37 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 was one of those two. Or there might have been a third 2 journal. I don't remember exactly. 3 Q. It would have been an American Society of Civil 4 Engineers journal publication, but may be a subunit of 5 the association? 6 A. That's correct. ASCE has a number of 7 divisions. 8 Q. Apparently divisions dealing with or addressing 9 subareas of specialization? 10 A. Yeah, within the overall practice of civil 11 engineering. 12 Q. In that vein, are you familiar with the 13 California coordinates system? 14 A. Generally. 15 Q. In your educational process, did you undertake 16 or develop any appreciation or understanding of 17 surveying concepts? 18 A. Limited, yes. 19 Q. I presume you do not hold any licenses as a 20 licensed surveyor, do you? 21 A. Not as a surveyor, per se, but my license to 22 practice allows me to do surveys. 23 Q. So you're saying that within the purview of 24 your license, you could do surveys if you chose -- 25 A. Yes. 38 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 Q. -- and would be legally permitted to do so? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Do you do surveying work? 4 A. No. 5 Q. With respect to the -- I believe it's -- is it 6 figure 1 that you appended to your paper, which is the 7 map? 8 A. In here (indicating)? 9 Q. Yes. 10 A. I thought it was Sheet 1. Plate 1. 11 Q. With reference to Plate 1 -- 12 MR. ZIMMER: Can I ask a question on that? I did 13 not receive a Plate 1 with the expert designation that 14 was produced to my office. 15 MR. ABBOTT: You should have. 16 MR. ZIMMER: I did not get a copy. I just found 17 out the other day, there was one attached. 18 If you could get me a copy at some point today. I 19 can look at somebody else's today. 20 MR. DUNN: We can get a copy for you. 21 MR. JOYCE: 22 Q. Are any of the lines depicted on Plate 1 23 survey lines or surveyed lines? 24 A. There are what would be section lines and -- 25 for reference, yes, and township and range lines, yes. 39 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 Q. So there are section lines and township and 2 range lines depicted on Plate 1. And I presume you 3 understand the surveying significance of those lines. 4 A. In general, yeah. 5 Q. You appreciate that the United States 6 Department and the surveyor general surveyed all public 7 lands and affixed corner markers for township range 8 section lines? 9 A. I don't know if they did in all these places, 10 no. 11 Q. Do you understand the concept of that? That's 12 what they were attempting to do? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Can you describe any point on any line that you 15 put on Plate 1 with reference to any township or section 16 line by metes and bounds or feet description? 17 A. I don't know if I can or not. The section 18 lines that are on here are included -- I'll call it a 19 general reference ultimately for the -- I'll call it the 20 convenience. 21 If we were to superimpose well locations, wells are 22 numbered for geographical reference by a system that 23 utilizes section, township and range numbers. And 24 that's the only real reason that they're there. 25 Q. Well, if I were to give you the coordinates for 40 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 any given well, can you tell me how many feet I am away 2 from any of the lines that you put on that map with any 3 reasonable degree of accuracy? 4 A. You better define "reasonable degree of 5 accuracy" before I answer that. 6 Q. Can you give me feet, metes and bounds, any 7 legally cognizable reference point so that I can walk or 8 traverse the surface from the well site to where you 9 believe that line is? 10 A. Probably. 11 Q. Within what degree of reliability? 12 A. I don't know. 13 Q. How would you go about doing that? 14 A. I would take the description, whatever you 15 provide me, for this well location and then try to 16 locate it on that map. 17 The dot that we put on that map will be, orders of 18 magnitude, bigger than the well site itself, recognizing 19 that the well is probably something on the order of a 20 foot in diameter, plus or minus a little bit. 21 We could then, at some scale other than what's 22 included on this sheet, attempt to, with -- you want to 23 use metes and bounds, whatever -- tell you a distance 24 from that point to some other corner or some other 25 reference point. Probably plus or minus, it would be 41 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 measured in 100ths of feet, again, given the big 2 assumption as to what you provide me in the way of a 3 location of the well. 4 Q. Well, can I take what you've provided as 5 Plate 1 and give it to a licensed surveyor and have him 6 then locate a given well on a piece of my client's 7 property and, by way of example, tell me where I am in 8 relationship to the Neenach fault line that you've 9 indicated on Plate 1? 10 MR. DUNN: Objection. Incomplete hypothetical. 11 You can go ahead and answer, if you can. 12 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 13 MR. JOYCE: 14 Q. Do you believe, based upon your education as a 15 civil engineer, if there is sufficient information 16 contained within Plate 1 for a licensed surveyor to 17 calculate or to fix distances from any particular well 18 site to any fault line that you've identified? 19 A. Well, the fault line traces are extracted from 20 a collection of mapping of the fault line traces by 21 others. We didn't do any new work in the field to 22 attempt to specifically map fault line traces. At least 23 those that are visible. 24 Q. Any particular prior study you relied upon to 25 create Plate 1? 42 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 A. Well, Bloyd and Carlson would probably be the 2 two most predominant. 3 So the rest of the answer to your question is, I 4 think a surveyor, depending on how you ask the question, 5 if he accepted that designation of where the fault trace 6 is, again as shown on that page, the line itself is 7 probably bigger than the fault trace by quite a bit. 8 And locating a well, as specifically as you can locate 9 it and some fairly reasonable, quote, "estimate" of the 10 distance from the well to the fault trace, would be 11 achieved. 12 Q. Is that an estimate or an, in fact, surveyed 13 distance? 14 A. Well, I think that depends on how the surveyor 15 is interpreting the line that's on that map. 16 Q. Do you know whether or not the Neenach fault 17 line, by way of an example, has ever been surveyed? 18 A. I do not know. 19 Q. Do you know whether or not any of the lines 20 depicted on Plate 1 by you as being either basin 21 boundaries or subbasin boundaries have been surveyed? 22 A. I do not. 23 Q. You certainly did not survey them yourself? 24 A. That's correct. 25 Q. Presumably, you know what a legal description 43 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 is? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Could you generate a legal description of any 4 lines depicted upon Plate 1 if you were asked to do so? 5 A. Well, I wouldn't attempt to, so I don't know 6 whether I could or not. 7 Q. Why is it you would not attempt to? 8 A. Same reason I answered your question before. I 9 don't do surveying-related work. 10 Q. You would want to see a person who carries a 11 license and, in fact, engages in surveying to prepare 12 that kind of a description; correct? 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q. Can you recall when you were retained in this 15 matter? 16 A. Not exactly, but I'll guess midyear last year. 17 Q. Is there anything in your file that would help 18 to fix in time when that retention occurred? 19 A. Maybe. 20 No. 21 Q. Can you tell me who you were retained by? 22 A. It's a collection of, I'll say, municipal-type 23 water suppliers, the names of which I can't, all 24 instantly, list. 25 Q. Is it your understanding that you were retained 44 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 by all defendants that have been identified in the 2 litigation? 3 A. Well, I never asked about all. But if somebody 4 wants to tell me whether all are included, that's fine. 5 I don't know. 6 There is about five or six of them. 7 Q. Do you generate a single billing, or do you 8 split the billing among all the parties? 9 A. Multiple. 10 Q. I presume that that's not something that you 11 pay particular day-in-and-day-out attention to as far as 12 to whom all the bill is being split and sent to? 13 A. That is correct, not even close. 14 Q. I presume that the billing is being prorated, 15 if you know? 16 A. "Prorated" meaning -- 17 Q. Meaning split up amongst or equally divided 18 amongst all parties? 19 A. As far as I know, equally, yes. 20 Q. Do you know approximately how many times you've 21 met with, in person, any of the defendants or defendant 22 representatives for the purposes of discussing what it 23 is that you are being asked to do? 24 A. Not counting today? 25 Q. Not counting today. 45 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 A. I think once. Maybe twice. 2 Q. Do you recall where that meeting was? 3 A. The first was in Best, Best & Krieger's office 4 in Ontario. 5 It seems I went there a second time, but I don't 6 remember for sure. I don't remember meeting anywhere 7 else. 8 Q. Do you recall who all was present? 9 A. Not all, no. I could probably remember two or 10 three. 11 Q. Can you identify the ones that you do have a 12 present recollection as having been present at that 13 meeting? 14 A. Mr. Garner and Mr. Dunn, Mr. Tootle, Mr. Bunn, 15 B-U-N-N. I would have to look. I didn't make a list. 16 I might have taken a collection of business cards, 17 but I didn't make a list. 18 Q. Was there a charge given to you at that first 19 meeting? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. What was that? 22 A. To go home and craft what could turn into a 23 scope of work to investigate the history of basin 24 boundary designation, ground-water basin boundary 25 designation in the Antelope Valley. 46 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 Q. Was that the full parameters of what you were 2 then asked to do? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Presumably not asked to do anything more than 5 what you just described? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. Did anyone indicate to you that you may be 8 asked in the future to go further than that charge? 9 A. Not at that time, no. 10 Q. Since that time and up to and including today, 11 has anyone stated to you or said anything to you to 12 indicate to you that you're being asked to go beyond 13 that charge? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. When was that? 16 A. Week and a half ago. 17 Q. Where did that occur? In person or by phone? 18 A. By phone. 19 Q. With whom? 20 A. I don't remember who all was on that call. 21 Some of the same, if not all of the same people that I 22 just mentioned. 23 I think it was basically counsel for some or all of 24 the -- 25 Q. Some or all of the party defendants? 47 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 A. Yeah, the people for whom I'm working. 2 It was a conference-type call. They weren't all in 3 the same room, as far as -- as far as I know. 4 Q. Have you had any communications with any agents 5 or principals of any of the defendants outside or apart 6 from the attorneys? 7 A. No. 8 Q. So all of your communications with any of the 9 defendants have been through their counsel? 10 A. That's correct. 11 Q. It says approximately a year ago when you were 12 first asked to initiate your efforts to craft an 13 understanding of the ground-water basins in the Antelope 14 Valley. 15 A. No. I said about mid last year, I was first 16 contacted. 17 Q. Mid last year, being midsummer of 2001? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Did you, after that meeting, initiate your 20 efforts to do what you have been charged to do? 21 A. No. 22 I'll just say made a place holder that this was 23 something I might do. And ultimately you asked about 24 meeting with them face to face. I met with them face to 25 face in the fall, and that's when I was commissioned to 48 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 write what could turn into the scope of work. 2 And then, I forget, you know, a month or more 3 later, I was told to go ahead and do that or asked to do 4 that. 5 Q. So you were contacted in midsummer of 2001? 6 A. That's a guess, yes. 7 Q. At that point, told that you were likely going 8 to be retained to do some work involving the Antelope 9 Valley and the Antelope Valley ground-water situation? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Had the first face-to-face meeting in the fall 12 of 2001? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. It was at that time that you were actually 15 given what your initial charge was going to be in 16 connection with the pending litigation? 17 A. I probably wouldn't characterize it the way you 18 just did, but that's pretty close. 19 Q. To be fair, how would you characterize it, 20 then? 21 A. Characterize it the way I already said it. 22 They said, "Go home and craft an" -- in effect, "a scope 23 of how you would propose to investigate what's been 24 historically documented as the Antelope Valley 25 ground-water basin." 49 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 Q. So initially, it wasn't -- the initial charge 2 was for you to return to your offices or, after the 3 meeting, to develop for the benefit of counsel for the 4 defendants a methodology or a scope as to how you would 5 go about addressing the issue? 6 A. Scope and proposed budget, yeah. 7 Q. Do you have anything in writing that reflects 8 the scope that you came up with? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. What would that be? 11 A. A letter that I wrote on that subject. 12 Q. Pardon me? 13 A. It would be a letter I wrote on that subject. 14 Q. Can I see that, please. 15 A. (Indicating.) 16 Q. Can we take a few minutes. I want a chance to 17 review it. We'll take about a five. 18 (A recess is taken.) 19 MR. JOYCE: Let's go ahead and mark this as next in 20 order, please. 21 THE WITNESS: You can mark a copy of it. I'd like 22 to keep the original. 23 MR. DUNN: I'll make a copy of it. 24 MR. JOYCE: ^ I'm going to put "D" on this blue 25 sticky. Then when we have an opportunity, we can get 50 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 the letter itself duplicated and then appended as -- you 2 can mark the copy as "D" and then append it. 3 Q. Sir, in looking at what we've identified as 4 Exhibit D, that is a letter from you, addressed to a 5 Theresa Antonucci -- 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. -- at Best, Best & Krieger, dated October 30th 8 of 2001. 9 A. (No response.) 10 Q. I want you to confirm that I'm accurately 11 describing the address and the date of that letter. 12 A. I didn't hear you ask the question, but that's 13 what it says on there, yeah. 14 Q. Was that letter authored at or about the date 15 it bears? 16 A. I don't know about at or about. It was sent on 17 that date. 18 Q. Authored sometime before or on that date? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. In this letter, you basically make a suggested 21 proposal as to how to go about approaching the task that 22 is at hand, i.e., addressing the boundaries of the 23 basin? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Do you know whether or not the proposal, as 51 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 outlined by you in this letter, was accepted and, in 2 fact, is the scope and approach that was ultimately 3 implemented? 4 A. Most of it was. 5 Q. You say "most of it." 6 Is there parts of it that were not? 7 A. Well, it wasn't specifically -- Well, rephrase 8 that. 9 It was specifically authorized to do the part about 10 scope with regard to define the basin and focus on 11 extracting a basin description and definition from 12 previous investigations. 13 I wrote some stuff at the end about being aware of, 14 as we went through the literature, basin conditions 15 historically, but I didn't do that part of the work. 16 Q. What you're saying is that you provided a scope 17 of work and a proposed methodology for the scope of work 18 to the extent that addressed the issue of basin 19 boundaries; correct? 20 A. That is correct. 21 Q. You also made a suggestion that you may want to 22 also consider a parallel track at the same time of basin 23 conditions? 24 A. That's correct. 25 Q. The former you were authorized to proceed with, 52 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 the latter you did not? 2 A. That is correct. 3 Q. Presumably then, as to the latter, you've not 4 done any work, as we sit here today, in connection with 5 this retention? 6 A. That is correct. 7 Q. Can you summarize generally the methodology 8 employed by you in generating the report that has -- or 9 the paper that has been provided to me with the Plate 1? 10 A. Yes, I can. 11 MR. ZIMMER: This is Exhibit D? 12 MR. JOYCE: Yes. 13 Q. Could you just describe to me the methodology 14 employed, sir. 15 A. Sure. 16 It's as written in the document. Reviewed the 17 literature on the subject of definition of what a 18 ground-water basin is and factors, considerations, 19 features that would or could or should be used to define 20 the limits of the ground-water basin, and then reviewed 21 as much of the available literature we could find to 22 extract, in evolution if that were the case, of previous 23 investigations that had documented basin boundaries and 24 whatever was included in the literature to describe the 25 criteria that were used by previous investigators to 53 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 define those boundaries. 2 And then compared the results and particularly the 3 criteria used to those that had delineated from the 4 literature as to what should be used to come to a 5 conclusion that I thought that would have previously 6 been mapped was legitimate or illegitimate. In this 7 case, I concluded it was legitimate. 8 Q. When you say in this case you concluded it was 9 legitimate, what is it that you're referring to? 10 A. The definition of the basin boundaries. 11 Q. From what study are you referring to? 12 A. I said from the -- I'll call it the literature 13 as it is evolved in the basin. 14 Q. For the purpose of my next question, let's talk 15 about the external boundaries of the basin -- 16 A. Okay. 17 Q. -- the outermost external boundaries. 18 A. (Nods head in the affirmative.) 19 Q. With that conceptual focus, is it your 20 testimony, sir, that all the predecessor studies were in 21 agreement as to its location? 22 A. Descriptively, basically, yes. 23 There has been some refinement of the exact 24 location of the boundaries with time, from the 1960s 25 through about the present time. 54 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 But fundamentally, the prominent features that 2 describe the outermost limits of the ground-water basin 3 are consistent throughout that time period. 4 Q. Are you talking about in a descriptive sense or 5 in a mapping sense? 6 A. Basically both. I mean, in the simplest of 7 terms, the first investigator to describe them was Bloyd 8 of the U.S. Geological Survey in the 1960s. And he 9 literally described them, as well as mapped them. 10 And subsequent publications, mostly from the U.S. 11 Geological Survey, if not all from the U.S. Geological 12 Survey, have embraced his boundaries. 13 Of late, there has been some minor moving of the 14 mapping of the outermost boundaries in a couple of 15 locations, but in general, his boundaries, as originally 16 described and mapped, have been promulgated through the 17 literature in the succeeding 30, 35 years since he did 18 his work. 19 Q. Do you know what methodology was employed by 20 Bloyd to fix those lines on his maps? 21 A. His report pretty much speaks for itself. 22 Yes. He -- I do know what methodology he appeared 23 to use, yes. 24 Q. I'm not asking you what methodology you 25 surmised that he used. I want to know whether or not 55 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 you know, in fact, what his methodology was. 2 A. Well, I don't know Bloyd, and I've never asked 3 him that question. But based on what he wrote in his 4 report, then I know what methodology he used, yes. 5 Q. In his report, which I presume you brought with 6 you today -- 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. -- can you direct me to where in his report you 9 extract the methodology employed by Bloyd in fixing the 10 lines that he put upon his maps? 11 A. Beginning on page 19 of his report and 12 continuing for several pages thereafter, Bloyd describes 13 his basis for identifying basin boundaries. 14 Q. # Do you know what page that description of 15 the basis for his determination of the boundaries ends? 16 In other words, how far beyond 19 do we read before 17 we have concluded the description of the basis? 18 MR. DUNN: Objection. This report speaks for 19 itself. 20 Instruct you not to answer the question. 21 MR. JOYCE: Mr. Dunn, I'm not a hydrologist. I 22 need the witness to help me understand the subject 23 matter. I'm asking him to help direct me to what 24 portion of the report I would read, as a layperson, so 25 as to understand the methodology employed by Bloyd as he 56 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 understands it. 2 Are you standing on your instruction? 3 MR. DUNN: Do you have another question? 4 MR. JOYCE: 5 Q. # I repeat the question. Where does Bloyd's 6 description end as far as describing the methodology 7 employed by him in fixing the lines of the basin 8 boundaries on his map? 9 MR. DUNN: Same objection. Argumentative. 10 Instruct the witness not to answer. 11 MR. JOYCE: 12 Q. Sir, are you going to follow Mr. Dunn's 13 instruction? 14 A. I guess. 15 MR. JOYCE: Does other counsel who have retained 16 Mr. Scalmanini adopt the instruction? 17 MR. SENECAL: We don't have to respond to that, 18 Mr. Joyce. 19 MR. JOYCE: I want to know to whom I'm going to be 20 looking when I make the motion. 21 MR. DUNN: You can look to me, Mr. Joyce. 22 MR. JOYCE: I want to know -- 23 MR. DUNN: I just answered your question. 24 MR. JOYCE: The motion is not going to be directed 25 to just excluding his testimony from one party. It's as 57 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 to everybody who wants to adopt the instruction. 2 Express your views now so I know who and who isn't 3 going to be subject to this. 4 MR. SENECAL: My name is Senecal, and I'll 5 stipulate you are not a hydrogeologist, which is the 6 statement you made. 7 MR. JOYCE: I want to know whether or not, sir, you 8 likewise are instructing your retained expert to decline 9 to answer the last question pending. 10 MR. DUNN: Mr. Joyce, unless you have another 11 question of Mr. Scalmanini, the deposition will be over. 12 Do you have another question for Mr. Scalmanini? 13 MR. JOYCE: I want to know which parties are, who 14 have retained Mr. Scalmanini, joining in the instruction 15 to not respond. That's all I'm asking, Counsel. 16 MR. DUNN: Is that a question for Mr. Scalmanini? 17 MR. JOYCE: Mr. Scalmanini, you have had one of 18 your clients instruct you not to answer. 19 Any other client instructing him? 20 MR. DUNN: Mr. Joyce, unless you have another 21 question -- which I suggest you pose to Mr. Scalmanini 22 now. Otherwise, the deposition is over. 23 If you want to engage with counsel in some kind of 24 matter that's -- 25 MR. JOYCE: You want to shut it down, do it. Don't 58 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 sit there and threaten it. Do it. 2 MR. DUNN: Mr. Joyce, if you continue to have these 3 emotional, angry outbursts -- 4 MR. JOYCE: I'm not the one sitting here looking 5 like a pigeon staring me down. 6 MR. DUNN: Mr. Joyce, this deposition is now over. 7 MR. JOYCE: Let me see the report. Maybe I can 8 figure it out. 9 MR. DUNN: Do not hand the report to Mr. Joyce. 10 Based on your last comment, this deposition is now 11 over. 12 And let the record reflect that we will be seeking 13 a protective order against these types of comments and 14 behavior. 15 MR. JOYCE: All I'm -- 16 MR. DUNN: The deposition is over, Mr. Joyce. 17 MR. ZIMMER: Can I -- 18 MR. DUNN: Mr. Zimmer, what do you have to add to 19 this? 20 MR. ZIMMER: I would like to be able to ask some 21 questions. We came all the way down here today. 22 MR. DUNN: You're going to have to take that up 23 with Mr. Joyce. I'm sorry, Counsel. 24 But this has gone on for several hours. We've had 25 several of these kind of angry and, I think, 59 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 unprofessional outbursts. 2 MR. JOYCE: There have been none. I have done 3 nothing by way of outbursts. 4 The transcript will -- 5 MR. DUNN: Mr. Joyce, this record is now, several 6 times, full of unprofessional comments directed 7 personally at me. And if you're going to continue to 8 engage in that kind of behavior -- 9 MR. JOYCE: Then I will extend my apologies if you 10 took it that way. All I'm trying to do is get 11 information. 12 MR. DUNN: Mr. Joyce, I disagree, because the way 13 for you to properly get information is from this 14 deponent. 15 MR. JOYCE: I'm trying to ask him questions, and 16 you obstructed my effort. 17 MR. DUNN: I believe I have that right to do so. 18 If you disagree with that, you can take it up with the 19 Court. 20 MR. JOYCE: I'm trying to make sure I know what all 21 parties are joining in the instruction not to answer. 22 He's obviously not going to answer the question. I want 23 to know who else is on -- 24 MR. DUNN: That's true. He's not going to answer 25 that question. 60 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 You're not posing additional questions to him so 2 the deposition is over. 3 MR. JOYCE: It's your call. You do what you wish 4 to do. 5 MR. DUNN: I think I need to do that to protect the 6 deposition process. 7 MR. JOYCE: Mr. Dunn, if you want to, fine. I'm 8 prepared to ask another question. It's your call. 9 MR. DUNN: No. 10 I asked you to do that and, instead, you sort of 11 engaged in this argument with counsel. 12 MR. JOYCE: Right now I'm telling you, I have 13 another question. If you want to proceed with shutting 14 it down -- 15 MR. DUNN: No. The deposition has already been 16 ended. 17 MR. JOYCE: Right. Then we've ended. 18 MR. DUNN: Off the record. 19 (A discussion is held off the record.) 20 MR. JOYCE: On the record, please. 21 Apparently with the last instruction and the 22 colloquy which followed, apparently Mr. Dunn has advised 23 that he's not going to permit any further questioning of 24 the witness. And I guess we will have to resort to 25 whatever processes are available to us under the Code 61 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 and whatever remedies the law provides for under the 2 circumstances. 3 And with that, I guess it is terminated 4 unilaterally by the defendant or defendants. I can't 5 tell which in this matter. 6 MR. ZIMMER: This is on the record. 7 My suggestion to everybody is -- Tempers are 8 running a little high here. My suggestion is that we 9 try and proceed so that we can find out what information 10 we can get, and then we can take up the areas of 11 disagreement before the Court if that's necessary later. 12 MR. JOYCE: I think that's about it, given 13 Mr. Dunn's position. 14 MR. DUNN: Okay. 15 (A discussion is held off the record.) 16 MR. JOYCE: Back on the record. 17 I want to give her -- so she can handle this 18 portion of the transcript that we -- So this much of it 19 will be dealt with, I have requested an expedited 20 transcript. 21 I would ask that Madam Court Reporter direct the 22 original of the transcript to the witness' business 23 address and that he can review and make any corrections 24 that he chooses. 25 If he wants to wait and not do it until after the 62 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 commencement of trial, life goes on. That's his call. 2 We'll do it by Code. 3 MR. DUNN: There is nothing to stipulate to. 4 MR. JOYCE: I want to make sure you understood that 5 that's what we were doing. 6 MR. DUNN: Mr. Joyce, I understand. 7 MR. ZIMMER: Just so I'm clear, are we going to do 8 the stipulation? 9 MR. DUNN: We're going by Code. 10 MR. JOYCE: I don't think we're going to solicit a 11 stipulation at this juncture. That would not benefit 12 Mr. Dunn. 13 MR. DUNN: Now, Mr. Joyce, don't be further nasty. 14 MR. JOYCE: I'm not, if you want to propose a 15 stipulation, I'll be more than happy to accept a 16 reasonable stipulation. 17 MR. DUNN: We'll do it by the Code. 18 MR. JOYCE: See. I didn't think I missed much. 19 Make sure we get a copy of "D" before we leave, 20 please. 21 (Whereupon the documents referred to are marked by 22 the reporter as Plaintiff Exhibits C and D for 23 identification.) 24 (The proceedings concluded at 11:53 a.m.) 25 *** 63 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws 2 of the State of California that the foregoing is true 3 and correct. 4 5 Executed at ________________________, California, 6 on _________________________________. 7 8 9 _______________________________________ JOSEPH C. SCALMANINI, PE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 64 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210 1 STATE OF CALIFORNIA ) ss 2 I, GAIL C. CAIN, CSR 6556, do hereby declare: 3 4 That, prior to being examined, the witness named 5 in the foregoing deposition was by me duly sworn 6 pursuant to Section 2093(b) and 2094 of the Code of 7 Civil Procedure; 8 9 That said deposition was taken down by me in 10 shorthand at the time and place therein named and 11 thereafter reduced to text under my direction. 12 13 I further declare that I have no interest in the 14 event of the action. 15 16 I declare under penalty of perjury under the 17 laws of the State of California that the foregoing is 18 true and correct. 19 20 WITNESS my hand this _____________ day of 21 ___________________________, _________. 22 23 ________________________________________________ GAIL C. CAIN, CSR 6556 24 25 65 HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES 800.697.3210